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Thanks KennyB, I have been trying to intercept the password using a serial line monitor. I am using my software development S7-400 PLC with a known password AAAAAAAA and monitoring the data flow between the PC and PLC at the time that I enter a password to access data in the PLC. However, so far no luck. It seems that the data is encripted, compressed or encoded in some way. Does anybody have details regarding the format of S7 data between the PC and PLC? By the way the serial monitor I am using is HHD SerMon Pro. Www.hhdsoftware.com/sermon.html Regards.John Gaunt.
Thanks Nak, The PLC is S7-313 (313-5BE00-0AB0) and fitted with an MMC (Micro Memory Card) I received the following in an email from Siemens Singapore: 1) The New CPU does not have a battery and the MMC is alway necessary for the CPU to be in operation. 2) CPU will go to stop mode if the MMC is remove. 3) In any case the system configuration ( hardware configuration + program + network configuration) is stored in the MMC card. If you insert MMC to another CPU and power up the first action is all the data is loaded from the MMC to the CPU. Thus the CPU will also be password protected. In future even all the comment will be save in the MMC thus all documentation will be store digitally.
They had contacted Siemens Germany to obtain this information. Basically they are saying that the password is in the MMC as well as the CPU. Please respond with your comments. Regards.John Gaunt. Thanks Johnny T, Yes comments on the Micro Memory Card will be very useful. However, there is a danger that sloppy programmers will not keep their Step7 project up to date by continuing to make online changes. Regarding the password I think Siemens are saying it is stored on the MMC as well as in the CPU.
The CPU only has volatile memory and is not battery backed up. You set up the password under Step7 / Hardware / CPU properties and download the Hardware config to the PLC. If the PLC is already password protected you can only do the download after you enter the correct password. I prefer to not use passwords. Where it is necessary I use the same password everywhere and make it known to the customer. I am flattered if people copy my code and in any case continual development means that I offer new features on each job.
Process improvement is a major aspect of my work. However, many companies feel they must protect their software investment and so put passwords on PLC's etc. The worrying aspect is that passwords are easy to put on a PLC and it can be done with mallice by for example a disgruntled employee. It can also be done by one company which has had a falling out with its customer.
Regards.John Gaunt. Yep, I here ya! Its exactly the same with things like OP7's. People like to password protect everything. Its fine if they just use the normal 100 password but they normally stick something in there and then by the time the customer has to work on it, the person who developed it has left.
I'm not a fan of passwords at all. I'm surprised that there is not a way around the password protection in the PLC though. I'm assuming you need a password to upload the code to your computer. Could you not make a new hardware config up in Simatic Manager and download it but choose not to overwrite the code thats in there? Or would it overwrite the code anyway.? I'm almost sure I've downloaded a new hardware config in the past and its left the existing code in the PLC. You would then have an unprotected hardware config plus your original code.:).
Originally posted by Johnny T Second question is why would anyone password protect the PLC, it seems like a recipe for trouble to me All our S7 PLC's that we used are password protected against read and write, no trouble there, the password is only known to authorised users, that's a total of two people! Originally posted by Johnny T Could you not make a new hardware config up in Simatic Manager and download it but choose not to overwrite the code thats in there? Or would it overwrite the code anyway.? I'm almost sure I've downloaded a new hardware config in the past and its left the existing code in the PLC The options on password protection are write protect or read/write protect, so attempting to download a new configuration will end up with you being promted for a password, as write protect is always part of the options.
Apart from that, if you download the hardware configuration only it will leave your code in place, but you should download from the hardware configuration editor. John Almost certainly Siemenes will have a way in. But equally they will not want to release it.
Think of the credibility they would loose with all their, say, OEM, customers who trust this password facility. If it turns out that anyone else can simply approach Siemens with a sob-story and say 'Please unlock my PLC for me', where does that leave the poor OEM who reasonably placed his faith in a facility that was there to be used? I would guess that Siemens' responsibility is presumably to ensure that you have a working PLC according to how they manufactured it. And this you can achieve by erasing everything. On the other hand, the software in the CPU isn't their's to release.
Is it a machine builder, an integrator, an end-customer? What if the supplier's now bankrupt and out of business? Who owns his assets? The lawyers or administrators for the business? And you want to start handing it away? Wow, that's a murky pool to start paddling in.
No wonder they don't want to get involved. I just think there's at least two sides to this problem. Originally posted by John Gaunt I have an S7-300 PLC that has had its CPU password protected.
Can anybody help me unlock it? I don't have its Step7 project and want to download its blocks, create a symbol table and be able to make some necessary changes to its program. I am familiar with Siemens Statement List (STL) programming. Again, can you help unlock this CPU. On password level you write'clearplc',maybe the password is over write.This procedure maintain on SIMATIC S7 200 PLC. Regards Tarok Seal India. I dont use S7-200, so I really dont know, but 'clearplc' sounds more like it will erase the PLC memory, not like it will give access to the program.
Anyhow, I think that there should be no 'back door' into a PLC that has been password protected. Do you want it to be possible for someone to enter your house with a 'master key' that has been distributed to the public? It is certainly a hazzle for the enduser, but it is also very understandable that the supplier wants to lock the program while the equipment is still in warranty, and it is equally understandable if the supplier wants to protect his know-how from being copied by anyone. If access to the program is required by the enduser, it must be aggreed upon when the equipment is purchased from the supplier. Unfortunately, that only works for the older models with the keyswitch, not for the MMC based current models.
I discovered a guy on the German PLC forum, who claims to be able to clear the password, he didn't make it clear whether or not the programm is still there afterwards or not and the original inquirer only wanted to be able to download a new program. This is his e-mail address: [email protected]. He wants to be paid for his trouble, but I guess that's not a seious problem if it's important enough to get access to the CPU again. I assume he'll speak English, but if not send me a PM and I'll play go-between. PS The post in the German forum is remarkably current - 13th & 15th of Dec.! While I am not familiar with this brand of PLC, the password and other programming instructions are probably stored in an EAROM - Electrically Alterable Read Only Memory chip.
So if the chip is in a socket, you could remove the chip and put it in a reading device and dump the contents out to a reader, then you should be able to recover the password. Obviously this is what the manufacturer could do for you if you could get them to do it. It sounds like a hacker with the right tools could decode it for you. Unfortunatley I don't have the tools available but in theory, that's the way to go. Dear John, This is martin from china, i have a same problem with yours,and have same situation like yours before. I need your help. Our cpu type as belows CPU module: CPU315-2DP 315-2AF03-0AB0 FLASH card: MC 951/128KB /5V FLASH 6ES7 951-0KG00-0AA0 as your mentioned,can i find the password via comlite32 under win98?
How can i do? I also has not reding device,and we only have 1 off flash card, if lose,i am worried we will lose the whole machine. You are experienced on this,pls help me. Your answer is my highly appreciated. BR martin [email protected]. Dear John, This is martin from china, i have a same problem with yours,and have same situation like yours before.
I need your help. Our cpu type as belows CPU module: CPU315-2DP 315-2AF03-0AB0 FLASH card: MC 951/128KB /5V FLASH 6ES7 951-0KG00-0AA0 as your mentioned,can i find the password via comlite32 under win98? How can i do? I also has not reading device,and we only have 1 off flash card, if lose,i am worried we will lose the whole machine. You are experienced on this,pls help me.
Your answer is my highly appreciated. BR martin [email protected]. Hello: I have the same problems with a simatic CPU 315 2DP with a MC Flash.
I have a program to unlock the cpu but it work by brute force method. I have readed in a forum that it is possible to unlock the CPU password reading the MC card in external prommer. Any bady know somthing about that? Best regards and excuseme my poor English!
Hello ihosvany! I don`t know much aboat that, but it should be theoretically possible. Please let us know if you find out anything about that.
What is the brute force program that you are using and how did you get a hold of it? I would like to have that program.
Best regards.